Curse

White Designs · Sep 14, 2005, 07:27 PM // 19:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eonwe

Why you wouldn't be running Fear Me in an IWAY build is really beyond me. Once things start dying, and everything gets going it's unfortunately all over if you bunch up. You can't deal with that much energy denial, sorry

.

Well, maybe you don't want to deal with another attribute line in tactics (although I would). However, that doesn't matter since its fairly safe to assume standard IWAY doesn't have it, so its valid to ignore it. This thread was asking how to defeat standard IWAY, not good IWAY that almost no one uses

I still wouldn't ball up though, you cannot seed through Warrior damage because they will be hitting for alot more than 32 damage per strike, not to mention the wicked adrenaline spikes which they'll be pulling off pratically constantly if you just sit there and let them pound on you.

Rossaroni · Sep 14, 2005, 09:44 PM // 21:44

To defeat warriors, use either conditions (bleeding, cripple, weakness), hexes (Shadow of Fear, Blurred Vision, Spiteful Spirit, Suffering...), or just cut down their ability to hit you in any other way possible.

For the IWAY build, adrenaline denial works the best, as it's basically an adrenaline dependent build (eviscerate, for example).

And yeah, don't kill the pets. Ever.

smurfhunter · Sep 14, 2005, 09:44 PM // 21:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eonwe

That doesn't make sense.

Why you wouldn't be running Fear Me in an IWAY build is really beyond me. Once things start dying, and everything gets going it's unfortunately all over if you bunch up. You can't deal with that much energy denial, sorry

.

um... from my knowledge they die a helluva lot faster than it takes to use fear me effectively. not to mention pets die faster do you have 7 blacked out warriors. i have *never* lost to a 7 warrior iway build, its the ones with 2+ necs or monks that start to hurt.

the tanks last all of 3 seconds with BA, meteor shower, and putrid going off. its not fear me that hurts, its when the other necro pulls off a well of profane that it starts to get sticky because healing seed gets removed...

you cant effectively use fear me on a necro either, he has soul reaping and things are dying incredibly fast if you just run into a ball, so really as long as the monk preemptively crossed seeds and you have ba on, and assuming your necro is competent, i just dont see a 7 w/r build winning, fear me or not. >.<

IWAY = noobs way of killing noobs (imo)

and white designs... go actually try getting into a ball against iway? ul see what i mean if its a standard crap iway... they die in about 3 seconds. +/- depending on how good your necro is. you dont have time to get adrenaline, or use it. (funiest thing is when they run into your ball, take like 400 damage and start slowly backing out - that one is great)

and anyway how do you hit TF *and* fear me in that (attribs dont work out - crappy fear me or crappy tf or both)? oh plz dont tell me you use frenzy in an IWAY build

Yamat · Sep 14, 2005, 10:46 PM // 22:46

There was a great video posted the other day showing how crap Necro's are in GvG... (sarcasm mode off. Have to spell it out since people here generally can't detect sarcasm). Anyway, an IWAY team gets utterly, utterly demolished in the vid. So does an E/Mo smite time. Good fun!

Eonwe · Sep 14, 2005, 10:57 PM // 22:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by smurfhunter

um... from my knowledge they die a helluva lot faster than it takes to use fear me effectively. not to mention pets die faster do you have 7 blacked out warriors. i have *never* lost to a 7 warrior iway build, its the ones with 2+ necs or monks that start to hurt.

Hey, I'm not going to argue that you've probably beaten bad players.

Quote:

you cant effectively use fear me on a necro either, he has soul reaping and things are dying incredibly fast if you just run into a ball, so really as long as the monk preemptively crossed seeds and you have ba on, and assuming your necro is competent, i just dont see a 7 w/r build winning, fear me or not. >.<

Sure, the necro will gain energy from the dead pets when they die, but will that matter? Is he the person that's going to keep his team alive? No. Unreliable energy gain isn't going to help you when you have roughly -25 to -30 pips of energy regen from 7 warriors pumping out fear me's with 33% increased attack speed and dark fury.

Quote:

and anyway how do you hit TF *and* fear me in that (attribs dont work out - crappy fear me or crappy tf or both)? oh plz dont tell me you use frenzy in an IWAY build

You know those bad players I mentioned before? Those are the players using Tiger's Fury in their IWAY builds. Go figure.

Saying that a build is bad because you've beaten bad players using bad versions of it along with bad strategy doesn't really justify anything at all.

Zeru · Sep 14, 2005, 11:55 PM // 23:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by smurfhunter

um... from my knowledge they die a helluva lot faster than it takes to use fear me effectively. not to mention pets die faster do you have 7 blacked out warriors. i have *never* lost to a 7 warrior iway build, its the ones with 2+ necs or monks that start to hurt.

the tanks last all of 3 seconds with BA, meteor shower, and putrid going off. its not fear me that hurts, its when the other necro pulls off a well of profane that it starts to get sticky because healing seed gets removed...

you cant effectively use fear me on a necro either, he has soul reaping and things are dying incredibly fast if you just run into a ball, so really as long as the monk preemptively crossed seeds and you have ba on, and assuming your necro is competent, i just dont see a 7 w/r build winning, fear me or not. >.<

IWAY = noobs way of killing noobs (imo)

and white designs... go actually try getting into a ball against iway? ul see what i mean if its a standard crap iway... they die in about 3 seconds. +/- depending on how good your necro is. you dont have time to get adrenaline, or use it. (funiest thing is when they run into your ball, take like 400 damage and start slowly backing out - that one is great)

and anyway how do you hit TF *and* fear me in that (attribs dont work out - crappy fear me or crappy tf or both)? oh plz dont tell me you use frenzy in an IWAY build

Your team will be completely drained of energy in about 10-15 seconds if they ball up. Channeling will delay it slightly but you are severely underestimating fear me's power. 7 fear mes every 1.77-2.66 seconds or less is stronger than even ether renewal. We ran into a few teams doing that, one of them even had all types of degen, wards, and aegis, and you know what? They still got owned because they balled up and had no energy after a very short time. Signet of devotion doesn't cut it vs 7 warriors with speed buffs. I don't see why people need to stand up next to the smite/healing ball to gain adrenaline either.

The IWAY builds with 2 necros or 2 monks are generally pretty crappy. The 7 w/r with 1 support is deadly, as is a 4 war 4 monk setup for holding; those are the ones I can think of off the top of my head as good IWAY builds. Others that deviate heavily from these probably aren't anything to worry about.

Quote:

There was a great video posted the other day showing how crap Necro's are in GvG... (sarcasm mode off. Have to spell it out since people here generally can't detect sarcasm). Anyway, an IWAY team gets utterly, utterly demolished in the vid. So does an E/Mo smite time. Good fun!

who cares. Doesn't mean 6 necro 2 monk teams are good. Doesn't mean the teams they played are good. It was a funny video but it has nothing to do with good skill or builds.

smurfhunter · Sep 15, 2005, 01:00 AM // 01:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eonwe

Hey, I'm not going to argue that you've probably beaten bad players.

i play too much tombs. ive seen *alot* of iway teams. its not a one time occurance. ._. you are implying that all teams out there are bad. im saying the build is bad; which is more likely: all the people in __ build are bad and thats why they keep losing or the build just plain sucks?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eonwe

Sure, the necro will gain energy from the dead pets when they die, but will that matter? Is he the person that's going to keep his team alive? No. Unreliable energy gain isn't going to help you when you have roughly -25 to -30 pips of energy regen from 7 warriors pumping out fear me's with 33% increased attack speed and dark fury.

unfiltered BS. the warrior wont LAST LONG ENOUGH to hit fear me more than once. putrid = 120 damage (approx). you get 10 from soul reaping. fear me or not as soon as something dies you hit putrid. then watch them put your energy to o, who cares you already cast it. and yes the necro keeps your team alive, if you let a 7 w/r team use all the corpses your team would be dead faster than the IWAY team. the necro is absoluetly ESSENTIAL at keeping your team alive. by kiling all the warriors he keeps your team alive. duh

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eonwe

You know those bad players I mentioned before? Those are the players using Tiger's Fury in their IWAY builds. Go figure.

if you dont use TF i dont see you getting any adrenaline at a decent speed. ohh thats right use IWAY? thats retarded, when you run in you + pets will die. this is your only chance to actually hit them, everyone dies at the same rate with aoes, so hitting IWAY when something dies wont do jack.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eonwe

Saying that a build is bad because you've beaten bad players using bad versions of it along with bad strategy doesn't really justify anything at all.

once again, let me just tell you that 99% of IWAY teams lose. you claim thats because 99% of iway players are idiots, i claim its because the build is downright stupid. which do you think is more likely? well maybe in your little wonderland you're some kind of elite thats above everyone else. welcome to the earth kid, not everyone is a retard. you should learn to respect other people.

smurfhunter · Sep 15, 2005, 01:04 AM // 01:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeru

Your team will be completely drained of energy in about 10-15 seconds if they ball up.

go in an iway team, and play someone that balls up. you have a grand total of 5 seconds +/- to work your fear me magic. one healing seed = enough. big woop they drop a monk. oh no, i cant use a res sig because...? (and thats rare, look at the score chart against a w/r group. the balled team barely dips while the other goes straight down like some kind of eoe bomb)

Boofhead · Sep 15, 2005, 01:37 AM // 01:37

What if you're balled up on a dust trap that's inside a ward against melee... and you're using aegis. Throw in a shadow of fear and there will barely be enough adrenaline to use fear me at all.

Eonwe · Sep 15, 2005, 01:52 AM // 01:52

Actually I haven't lost once yet, except in the hall, when running an IWAY build. The build isn't bad

.

smurfhunter · Sep 15, 2005, 01:56 AM // 01:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eonwe

Actually I haven't lost once yet, except in the hall, when running an IWAY build. The build isn't bad

.

/clap

now ill use your own ridiculous argument, "oh but theres only teh noobxors in tombs !!111"

Eonwe · Sep 15, 2005, 02:19 AM // 02:19

Unforunately I never said that. I said there are bad players in this game, which would be true. However, you have shown for the most part that you have no clue what actually makes a good IWAY build, and how you should actually play it.

bobrath · Sep 15, 2005, 02:32 AM // 02:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yamat

There was a great video posted the other day showing how crap Necro's are in GvG... (sarcasm mode off. Have to spell it out since people here generally can't detect sarcasm). Anyway, an IWAY team gets utterly, utterly demolished in the vid. So does an E/Mo smite time. Good fun!

Do you have a link to the vid? Love to see it

Zeru · Sep 15, 2005, 02:33 AM // 02:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by smurfhunter

go in an iway team, and play someone that balls up. you have a grand total of 5 seconds +/- to work your fear me magic. one healing seed = enough. big woop they drop a monk. oh no, i cant use a res sig because...? (and thats rare, look at the score chart against a w/r group. the balled team barely dips while the other goes straight down like some kind of eoe bomb)

The strat forums are not here how to teach people to beat bad people. Nobody said you have to stand within smite range or near your pets to get adrenaline. I wish I knew how to upload pictures. Cause I found it really funny a team did exactly what you have been saying and they died in about 30 seconds. They did it rather well too: they had multiple enchants and heavy smiting in a small stairway area. Didn't do a thing to us.

I guess there's not much more to say. When you play us, you'll see this is a lot harder to stop than you think. And I hope for your sake you don't bunch up because that's just death.

smurfhunter · Sep 15, 2005, 02:34 AM // 02:34

dont worry eonwe i still <3 you

Frost_ · Sep 15, 2005, 02:57 AM // 02:57

aegis....

thefox · Sep 15, 2005, 07:14 AM // 07:14

Trust me, Aegis doesn't really help

shaolin purist · Sep 15, 2005, 09:06 AM // 09:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeru

The strat forums are not here how to teach people to beat bad people. Nobody said you have to stand within smite range or near your pets to get adrenaline. I wish I knew how to upload pictures. Cause I found it really funny a team did exactly what you have been saying and they died in about 30 seconds. They did it rather well too: they had multiple enchants and heavy smiting in a small stairway area. Didn't do a thing to us.

I guess there's not much more to say. When you play us, you'll see this is a lot harder to stop than you think. And I hope for your sake you don't bunch up because that's just death.

Agreed 100%. Ok, so imagine you balled up in a corner. 7 W/R's come in, pull out the ranged weapons the bought for the purpose and send the pets in. So you have 2 choices...split the ball, or kill all the pets and get absolutely steamrollered shortly after. Balling up allows the IWAY build to do exactly what is intended, force smite teams to kill the pets. As im sure most of you have noticed, it's pretty hard to smite well enough to kill W's and that necro without dropping dead pets right left and centre. And with 5+ pets dead, you really have put yourself at a hideous disadvantage.
Wards are fairly effective, ball might be worth trying in a 3-ward group although i reckon dust trap/throw dirt/mass slowdown is the future of anti-iway, if the W's cant get to you you can pick them off at leasure with casters. Blocking 50% of attacks a la Aegis really isnt the answer tbh, with a nearly doubled attack speed from Tigers and IWAY (and i dont know how you can say TF doesnt belong in an IWAY build, unless you want to run frenzy, and given that W's WILL be targetted that seems a little foolish.) they're still hitting you as often as they would with no buffs and no aegis , which is enough to hurt...more to the point any iway warrior who thought for 5 minutes before starting would be running iresisitable blow and/or warriors cunning anyway...

Pharalon · Sep 15, 2005, 10:10 AM // 10:10

Quote:

the tanks last all of 3 seconds with BA, meteor shower, and putrid going off. its not fear me that hurts, its when the other necro pulls off a well of profane that it starts to get sticky because healing seed gets removed...

How are you AoEing warriors that are spread out in a ring around you (in the case of a ball) or spread on 3-5 different targets (in the case of kiting)? What moron is standing on top of his dead pet? Why are they hitting a target that's got seed on them?

Quote:

unfiltered BS. the warrior wont LAST LONG ENOUGH to hit fear me more than once. putrid = 120 damage (approx). you get 10 from soul reaping. fear me or not as soon as something dies you hit putrid. then watch them put your energy to o, who cares you already cast it. and yes the necro keeps your team alive, if you let a 7 w/r team use all the corpses your team would be dead faster than the IWAY team. the necro is absoluetly ESSENTIAL at keeping your team alive. by kiling all the warriors he keeps your team alive. duh

I think this statement kind of proves that you're playing awful IWAY teams. Necros are always first down when you're running IWAY, so the fact he's getting stupid energy from soul reaping is irrelevant. Everything else is ignorable, because Fear Me will drain them dry in under 10 seconds (slightly more if you spread and are running perma-aegis). If you've AoEed their pets in one big pile, why would they go anywhere near that spot? You're talking about ways to beat the build that depend on the enemy being stupid.

IWAY builds depend on the skill of the player, because there's not really much of interest going on with the build. It's solid and straightforward. The enemy knows exactly what you're doing, and you've got to depend on your execution to win you matches (because let's face it, there's nothing overpowered or broken with the build). If you've got 7 people that are competent warriors (good field awareness, picks targets of opportunity well, good positioning, know when to retreat), you should rock any tombs map besides the Dias.

If you charge a healing ball and engage in melee, sit in wells and AoEs, fight a necro amongst a pile of corpses, and don't know when to hit sprint and run like a girl (retreating is probably one of the most important things to do in an IWAY build), then you're going to loose to guys like smurfhunter.

smurfhunter · Sep 15, 2005, 02:28 PM // 14:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pharalon

How are you AoEing warriors that are spread out in a ring around you (in the case of a ball) or spread on 3-5 different targets (in the case of kiting)? What moron is standing on top of his dead pet? Why are they hitting a target that's got seed on them?

I think this statement kind of proves that you're playing awful IWAY teams. Necros are always first down when you're running IWAY, so the fact he's getting stupid energy from soul reaping is irrelevant. Everything else is ignorable, because Fear Me will drain them dry in under 10 seconds (slightly more if you spread and are running perma-aegis). If you've AoEed their pets in one big pile, why would they go anywhere near that spot? You're talking about ways to beat the build that depend on the enemy being stupid.

IWAY builds depend on the skill of the player, because there's not really much of interest going on with the build. It's solid and straightforward. The enemy knows exactly what you're doing, and you've got to depend on your execution to win you matches (because let's face it, there's nothing overpowered or broken with the build). If you've got 7 people that are competent warriors (good field awareness, picks targets of opportunity well, good positioning, know when to retreat), you should rock any tombs map besides the Dias.

If you charge a healing ball and engage in melee, sit in wells and AoEs, fight a necro amongst a pile of corpses, and don't know when to hit sprint and run like a girl (retreating is probably one of the most important things to do in an IWAY build), then you're going to loose to guys like smurfhunter.

the big question is, what do you do if the entire team is in a ball and wont leave it? you just stand around talking? eventually someone has to run in, and especially in an altar map its just funny..

um... if the pets die.. it doesnt do a thing. 6 pips of regen, but theyre taking about 22 a second from BA, 37 every like 1.__ seconds from zealots, 60 every 3 seconds from meteor shower, and about 120 everytime someone dies from putrid. if you think that BA doesnt hit everyone, think again. it does unless you have the some of the most seriously incompetent players balling up. why attack someone who has seed on him? asking me? the IWAY teams always go for their opposite number, and if its a monk they generally dont switch just because of seed. not to mention the fire ele usually takes things like phoenix and flameburst. that adds alot.

and no, necros are not the first down when playing against IWAY teams. when sitting in a ball its not that easy to kill the necro when hes standing some distance away spamming orders. thats why you *try* to have the mesmer go for him, which works like 70% of the time, and fails all the time when theres more than one.

you guys should seriously go into tombs and ask anyone in a decent team what they think of an IWAY team... 99% of the people go "free fame". these IWAY builds are ridiculously bad. you wont roll over anything with it.

and FYI, in altar maps, the reason IWAY teams lose isnt totaly based on the fact that they cant prot their ghost. take a 3 way HoH for example. ghost reses all the time, so you might as well just leave him at the start if your an IWAY. question is, if these builds are so strong, why dont they just run in at 2:00 and kil everyone then bring their ghost? thing is, they cant kill anyone. and theyre all bunched up on the altar. altar maps like broken tower and the hoh are really no different from a 1-1 other than the timer (for iways). its the courtyard map that stinks for them because they need to keep someone (the priest) alive to res the ghost, you cant rely on an orb/spawn point.

i seriously thing like 99% of the people who post pro-iway comments are just out of touch/havent played gw recently. GO PLAY THE GAME, then talk. iway builds are laughed at now, you only see these ppl going "rank 2 w/r with a pet LF iway team, i only have ts!!11" and the guys name is like "avenge you i will"

its like the old spike teams. which reminds me, i actually got owned by a spike team lol. it was some crazy guild using it. it was sad.